  bebopordeath
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I was just wandering if anyone bought into the whole idea of the crew dying after "Toys in the Attic". If so, can you explain it to me from your point of view? I've had a few plot elements and etc that make me go against the "dream sequence" of the second season idea. |
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| Message Posted On Monday, April 17th 2006 At 9:37 pm |
 Umibouzu
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It's been a while since your post, but maybe you'll see this. The entire "second season" could be considered a dream sequence, and please share your ideas on why it's not. That'd be something if the entire crew died right then and there. I think that the dream sequence is more plausible for the movie since there's more than ample proof to suggest that the movie is "all a dream", as Julia says at the end of the series. Actually, the entire series can be considered a dream because ever since Spike left the Red Dragon Syndicate, and the woman he loved did not come with him, he feels that he's been living a dream. Since the entire series is based around Spike, the feeling that it's all a dream is the main theme of the series. In "Toys in the Attic", the crew appears to die, but I think that's just Hajime Yatate and Shinichirou Watanabe presenting the main theme to the veiwer, which is the feelings about life that Spike has had since he left the Syndicate: It's all a dream. |
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| Message Posted On Tuesday, June 6th 2006 At 5:43 pm |
bebopordeath
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That makes sense, in a way. But the way I see it is that Toys in the Attic itself is more of the "dream". I think after Jupiter Jazz 1 and 2, and with the parallels of Grim compared to Spike, I see Toys in the Attic more as a Parallels to Spike's reality. I see that episode as a clash between his perception and his reality. As Spike elegantly put it in Real Folk Blues Part 2:
"Look into my eyes Faye, one of them is a fake because I lost it in an accident. Since then, I've been seeing the past in one eye, and the present through the other. So I thought I could only see patches of reality never the whole picture"....."I felt like I was watching a dream, a dream I would never wake up from. Before I knew it the dream was all over."
What I am about to leap out here with, may be pushing it a little far.
But I believe its reasonable to say that, that Toys in the Attic could be a dream and that it parallels Spike's train of thought. It could show that though he cares for the crew of the Bebop, they, in a sense to him, are dead. It shows how his only focus is Julia and Vicious.
Also, if you look at it. He felt like he was watching a dream he'd never wake up from, before he knew it the dream was all over. Vicious makes several references in Ballad of Fallen Angels and in Real Folk Blues about waking Spike up. A dream, in my opinion, is a metaphor to his life. Its his modern thinking of "I think therefore I am". I see him as feeling like death is the only way to wake up and that if he truly died in Toys in the Attic that he wouldn't have dreamed on. That it would have been over.
Finally I feel it Spike was "destined" to face Vicious. It was like his own reoccurring nightmare that he sought to destroy. I think that death was something that he was being denied, though he yearned for it. And then with the star fizzling out in Real Folk Blues part 2, i see that as the only way he could have died. |
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| Message Posted On Friday, June 23rd 2006 At 5:33 pm |
Umibouzu
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Your arguments are all sound. I do think that "Toys in the Attic" can be seen that way. There's a bit more evidence for Knockin' on Heaven's Door to say that it is a dream, but "Toys" has the same elements.
Yes, Spike was destined to meet Vicious. That's the only way that he could end his dream. At the beginning of the final episode, Vicious made a grab for power, and one of the things that he had his underlings do as he made that grab was to find Spike and kill him for betraying him. They were best friends, but the lady came between them. Spike must have realised that trying to run from the Syndicate with Julia wouldn't work, but he tried anyway. Once he realised that Julia wasn't coming, he moved through his life like it wasn't really there and he was already dead. |
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| Message Posted On Friday, June 23rd 2006 At 6:14 pm |
bebopordeath
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Yeah thats how I see it, and I also find it ironic how at the end, the one thing between Spike and Vicious, Julia is removed. Its almost to say, there is nothing in the way anymore, and lets see who will be there to meet her first. |
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| Message Posted On Friday, June 23rd 2006 At 6:34 pm |
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