On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:07 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

Okay, I'll PM your password in a second. No part in? They'll nuke us if we don't do something. Is that difficult to understand?

Okay thanks...

No I understand were your coming from, but drafting is not the answer. There's other ways of acquiring troops... A lot of Americans do it voluntarily right?

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:09 pm, Batman_Beyonder2 wrote:

Okay thanks...

I sent you the information.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:09 pm, Batman_Beyonder2 wrote:

No I understand were your coming from, but drafting is not the answer. There's other ways of acquiring troops... A lot of Americans do it voluntarily right?

Yes, but right now our armed forces are spread pretty thin. We may have to draft. I don't want to see a draft but if need it we need it. We can't just stand by and let them attack us.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:14 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

Yes, but right now our armed forces are spread pretty thin. We may have to draft. I don't want to see a draft but if need it we need it. We can't just stand by and let them attack us.

At the cost of more casualties?

It’s hard to jump into a debate that’s been raging on for as long as this topic has, but I’ll input my thoughts. Most people consider me a Democrat and a liberal, and while I don’t care too much about party affiliation or ideology, I suppose that I do lean towards the left in most cases. However, I know that if Iran does get nuclear weapons, it’s not going to be like the Cold War because they will use them in order to further their own gain. I’ve always liked to try to rationalize the issue by saying no human being is stupid enough to launch a nuclear war, though these past few years have changed everything and I know that Iran would either use the weapon themselves or sell it off to a terrorist organization in hopes of destroying Israel or the United States, amongst other potential targets.

I admit that I don’t want a draft, I’m a coward and I don’t want to die for my country. However, conscription has existed for as long as armed forces have existed on this planet and this world would be a much different place without conscription. I know it’s unfortunate, but if a draft is necessary to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons, then I suppose I’d have no choice but to support such an act, as the consequences of them having nuclear weapons is far too serious.

I know that the United States has nuclear weapons and while I’d like to say we shouldn’t have them, they’ve become a necessary evil. I hope that we never have to use another one of those things and I still believe our murdering of countless innocent civilians through dropping the A-Bombs will come back to haunt us, though we keep our nukes in order to try to stop others from using theirs.

If a draft takes place and we go to war with Iran, lives will be lost. However, many more lives will be lost if nuclear weapons fall into the hands of those who are actually crazy enough to use them.

I'll fight a war against Iran if it comes down. They pose a threat as well as North Korea. I'd rather things be resolved diplomatically, but if fighting is what needs to be done to keep the peace, then so be it. I was and am against Iraq because we have bigger issues at hand than to overthrow a dictator.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 5:47 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

On Friday, February 17th 2006 3:42 pm, Batman_Beyonder2 wrote: Ummm I say no.... I'm not going fight for something I don't believe in... Come on a draft? I say if you want to go to war and kill hundreds if not thousands of people go ahead... But don't force citizens to fight for something they don't believe in against their will. Excuse me? You don't believe in saving your own skin? You would rather Iran nuke us than fight? Truly amazing.

Iran hasnt gotten them. Like i said even if they want them they couldnt of possibly gotten pasted the enrichment stage.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 5:47 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

On Friday, February 17th 2006 3:36 pm, bobpage87 wrote: I say leave Iran to it's own devices. If countries like America and Britain can have nuclear missiles, then so should Iran. This is not an Euorpe VS America issue, Matthew. Nor a Democrat VS Republican (or conservative VS Labour, respectfully). The Iranians don't care about our differences. All that matters to them is that we are not Muslims. They would like nothing better than to see both of us die. I can’t believe anyone would let their dislike for America and Bush blind them in this. Doesn’t your life mean anything to you?

You are vilifying the entire islamic population with that statement. All the Iranians want is a little freedom to develop nuclear power (which should be encouraged not pushed back).

Why does everything have to boil down to hatred of Bush and America?

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 5:47 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

On Friday, February 17th 2006 4:19 pm, bobpage87 wrote: Actually, I am quite conservative on some issues. I've known you for six months and we've never agreed on anything. How are you conservative?

Like me and Mary have said countless times. American and Europian conservatives are different. American politians are much more radical whilst europian are more moderate, so quite a lot of the time, no, an american conservative wouldnt agree with a europian conservative (or visa-versa)

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:14 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

Yes, but right now our armed forces are spread pretty thin. We may have to draft. I don't want to see a draft but if need it we need it. We can't just stand by and let them attack us.

You support the war and are against the draft, but have you signed up to fight since you just turned 18?? ^o)

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 11:10 pm, dbzexpert wrote:

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:14 pm, KingJohn23 wrote: Yes, but right now our armed forces are spread pretty thin. We may have to draft. I don't want to see a draft but if need it we need it. We can't just stand by and let them attack us. You support the war and are against the draft, but have you signed up to fight since you just turned 18?? ^o)

I sure hope he as. You're required to.

I mean, has he volunteered.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 5:47 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

This is not an Euorpe VS America issue, Matthew. Nor a Democrat VS Republican (or conservative VS Labour, respectfully). The Iranians don't care about our differences. All that matters to them is that we are not Muslims. They would like nothing better than to see both of us die. I can’t believe anyone would let their dislike for America and Bush blind them in this. Doesn’t your life mean anything to you?

It's not really my dislike for America and Bush, I just feel that we shouldn't have double standards in letting some countries have them and others not. Britain is actually currently drawing up plans to replace all her nuclear missiles, which I'm sure is against some UN Nuclear Proliferation treaty or something like that. So we are basically just ignoring it, but when Iran tries to break it we go all preachy and start saying they shouldn't break it.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 5:47 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

1. You spelt didn't wrong. Sorry, you did it to hercfan1. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. ^o^

Indeed, I humbly apologise to hercfan1 for criticising his spelling. In my defence though, I was very tired at the time. :z

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 5:47 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

On Friday, February 17th 2006 4:19 pm, bobpage87 wrote: Actually, I am quite conservative on some issues. I've known you for six months and we've never agreed on anything. How are you conservative?

I'm quite conservative in a British sense, but compared to American conservatives I'm very liberal. We just have different levels of conservatism I suppose. Compared to my friends I am quite conservative on things, but also more liberal on other things, but yes, compared to you I'm liberal on pretty much everything.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 5:47 pm, KingJohn23 wrote:

Well, yall are invited to my message forum if you want to debate on a regular basis. I founded the forum about a year and a half ago for a few tvtome debators and we have grown to 50 members (Matthew is there, though he has been MIA for a few weeks) and almost 50,000 posts.

Indeed, I might pop along later actually. My favourites list was purged and I lost all my links. ^o) I popped in a few times, but I didn't want to charge into the middle of a debate which had been raging for like 17 pages.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:18 pm, Batman_Beyonder2 wrote:

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:14 pm, KingJohn23 wrote: Yes, but right now our armed forces are spread pretty thin. We may have to draft. I don't want to see a draft but if need it we need it. We can't just stand by and let them attack us. At the cost of more casualties?

I'll never understand folks that are pacifists no matter what.

It's either them or us. Do you really want it to be us? I'm all for diplomacy but it isn't working.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 7:25 pm, The_Huntsman wrote:

It’s hard to jump into a debate that’s been raging on for as long as this topic has, but I’ll input my thoughts. Most people consider me a Democrat and a liberal, and while I don’t care too much about party affiliation or ideology, I suppose that I do lean towards the left in most cases. However, I know that if Iran does get nuclear weapons, it’s not going to be like the Cold War because they will use them in order to further their own gain. I’ve always liked to try to rationalize the issue by saying no human being is stupid enough to launch a nuclear war, though these past few years have changed everything and I know that Iran would either use the weapon themselves or sell it off to a terrorist organization in hopes of destroying Israel or the United States, amongst other potential targets. I admit that I don’t want a draft, I’m a coward and I don’t want to die for my country. However, conscription has existed for as long as armed forces have existed on this planet and this world would be a much different place without conscription. I know it’s unfortunate, but if a draft is necessary to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons, then I suppose I’d have no choice but to support such an act, as the consequences of them having nuclear weapons is far too serious. I know that the United States has nuclear weapons and while I’d like to say we shouldn’t have them, they’ve become a necessary evil. I hope that we never have to use another one of those things and I still believe our murdering of countless innocent civilians through dropping the A-Bombs will come back to haunt us, though we keep our nukes in order to try to stop others from using theirs. If a draft takes place and we go to war with Iran, lives will be lost. However, many more lives will be lost if nuclear weapons fall into the hands of those who are actually crazy enough to use them.

Very reasonable of you. You have your priorities straight.

I wouldn't want to die either, but would if there was no other option.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 8:20 pm, manson_rules wrote:

Iran hasnt gotten them. Like i said even if they want them they couldnt of possibly gotten pasted the enrichment stage.

Okay, fine. But they are trying to get them. What are we supposed to do when it is beyond any doubt that they have them? Just surrender? Beg for mercy? Suck our thumbs?

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 8:20 pm, manson_rules wrote:

You are vilifying the entire islamic population with that statement. All the Iranians want is a little freedom to develop nuclear power (which should be encouraged not pushed back). Why does everything have to boil down to hatred of Bush and America?

Because for you, Matthew, and all but about six of the European continent that’s all there is. More of the liberal blindness I was talking about. Hating Bush is turning into a disease. Just mentioning his name will get some liberals twitching and if I were to say Iraq (even when discussing something unrelated to the war) they’d start chanting “no war for oil.”

All the Iranians want is for all non-Muslims to die. They’ve stated as much on many occasions. I can’t believe you are blinded.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 8:20 pm, manson_rules wrote:

Like me and Mary have said countless times. American and Europian conservatives are different. American politians are much more radical whilst europian are more moderate, so quite a lot of the time, no, an american conservative wouldnt agree with a europian conservative (or visa-versa)

Blah Blah Blah. Translation. You’re all a bunch of liberals. Even if Matthew and Mary were moderately conservative I’d find something to agree with them on. Yet they are exactly the same as you, who at least admits to being a liberal.

On Saturday, February 18th 2006 11:14 pm, Rhonda the commie wrote:

I mean, has he volunteered.

Yes, I signed up for Selective Service 2 days after my 18th birthday.

On Sunday, February 19th 2006 1:07 am, bobpage87 wrote:

It's not really my dislike for America and Bush, I just feel that we shouldn't have double standards in letting some countries have them and others not. Britain is actually currently drawing up plans to replace all her nuclear missiles, which I'm sure is against some UN Nuclear Proliferation treaty or something like that. So we are basically just ignoring it, but when Iran tries to break it we go all preachy and start saying they shouldn't break it.

It still seems (at least to me) that you’re just giving Iran a free pass by saying “The US and England have nukes so stop the double standard.” We have them to prevent others from attacking.

On Sunday, February 19th 2006 1:07 am, bobpage87 wrote:

Indeed, I might pop along later actually. My favourites list was purged and I lost all my links. I popped in a few times, but I didn't want to charge into the middle of a debate which had been raging for like 17 pages.

I hate it when that happens. I lose a lot of good research that way.

Stop by if you can. I’d love to hear your thoughts on “Would you rather go hunting with Cheney or Driving with Ted Kennedy.”

Regarding the draft right now it does not seem necessary. Iraq has tampered down violence wise compared to what it was to begin with. Right now the armed forces of the US and other countries that are still there have enough troops currently.

Regarding Iran, I believe I posted something on Randy's site regarding them comfirming they are in the Nuclear club and don't like being told they do not like them. They don't want the UN or the US tellling them not to be in it or they will not be a part of listening to what they have to say anymore. This was on the news so it is current.

On Sunday, February 19th 2006 6:55 am, Randy the Nazi wrote:

Yes, I signed up for Selective Service 2 days after my 18th birthday.

Everyone has to do that. I'm talking about you going over to fight in the next year, even with no draft. Will we be seeing you over there fighting?

Rhonda the commie Wrote:

On Sunday, February 19th 2006 6:55 am, Randy the Nazi wrote: Yes, I signed up for Selective Service 2 days after my 18th birthday. Everyone has to do that. I'm talking about you going over to fight in the next year, even with no draft. Will we be seeing you over there fighting?

They won't take me. I have 12 steel bars in my back.

Hey, at least you finally picked up my name. Took you long enough.

Remember when I got you banned from tv.com? ^o^

On Monday, February 20th 2006 10:58 am, KingJohn23 wrote:

Remember when I got you banned from tv.com? ^o^

You didn't. That would be "helpmegetpissed"