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  Tuesday, April 10th 2007 4:26 pm  
» Resignation
Well, it's been nearly a week since I sent Sebrioth my letter of resignation, and still I am sitting here as a Site Moderator. In that one week, he has logged in each day including making Cindy and Mad_Buck the latest Crazed Contributors, all the while ignoring my PM. This is just one example of the unprofessionalism and disrespect that has become a standard here at TVRage.

I wanted to cease being a Site Moderator and continue as a regular member, but that's increasingly looking impossible. I really didn't want to blog, and it's really beyond my expectation that my resignation would simply be ignored. I know a lot of members like it here, and so I don't want to bash this site, because for a great many of you, it's running just fine.

Why I am stepping down: In short, it's a difference in goals and expectations. For the most part, the site is focusing more and more on quantity as opposed to quality. There are a lot of great ideas floating around, but all eventually rely on Sebrioth's compliance, resulting in a sort of stasis. Take the SPECTRE position as an example. This idea has been around since before Rage 2.0 let alone 3.0, and yet, there are no parameters established to empower this position; at the same time, he added a few new Section 31 positions. SPECTRE – being a quality control job – is secondary to data entry, Section 31. If anything, the two positions are at odds, since the Section 31 members aren't required to use the approval system, leaving the floodgates open for unchecked error. "Editors" often cannot actually "edit" and instead we are meant to hold their hands through the process, but, you know, don't be too hard on them because it's just a hobby and we don't want to lose a customer, I mean, member. If you treat something lightly, like a hobby, then the results will be like a hobby. If you strive for professionalism, that's what you will get. Again, ich repeaten: that's fine for a lot of you, and that's fine for Rage, it's just that I don't want to be a part of that mindset. And that, in a nutshell, is why I'm stepping down.
 
Reactions (20)
Gadfly

Posts: 4392
Contrib Points: 158615.5
Since: 13/Dec/05
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 5:57 pm 
Relative newcomer here and all, but what do you mean by "Editors" often cannot actually "edit"? How do you guys hold their hands? I never thought anyone was holding my hand (okay, maybe CommandBalok a little ).
 
Nyall
Posts: 7095
Contrib Points: 10154.8
Since: 16/Dec/05
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 6:28 pm 
They can't edit because a Section 31 user can submit into their guide and it won't be moderated.
 
MoggIntellect

Posts: 5943
Contrib Points: 3206.3
Since: 30/Jan/06
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 7:23 pm 
Gadfly -- There are a lot of "editors" who, when submitting their guides, have to be told over and over to check for spelling, grammar, and compliance with guidelines. If we have to point out to them exactly where the mistakes are, then they're obviously not editors. Not everyone here falls under this category. TVRage has some great editors; it's just that they are vastly outnumbered by the inept ones.
 
Gadfly

Posts: 4392
Contrib Points: 158615.5
Since: 13/Dec/05
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 7:32 pm 
*blinks* Sounds like two different issues. The Spectre/Section 31 thing, and lousy editors.

As far as bad editors, what can you do? How hard do you want to be on them? All you can really do is fire them. Giving them a "suspension" ain't going to make them any better.
 
MoggIntellect

Posts: 5943
Contrib Points: 3206.3
Since: 30/Jan/06
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 7:49 pm 
There is no direct connection between the SPECTRE/S31 positions and bad editors; the connection is exactly what you said, "How hard do you want to be on them?" That kind of attitude leads to mediocrity, or even worse. Could you imaging the editor-in-chief of a major publication saying, "How hard do you want to be on them?"

Anyway, Gadfly, I'm not interested in arguing this out. If you need further clarification feel free to PM me. I'm not trying to debate, just explain.
 
Aramis

Posts: 4502
Contrib Points: 22258.1
Since: 17/Dec/05
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 8:04 pm 
 
Gadfly

Posts: 4392
Contrib Points: 158615.5
Since: 13/Dec/05
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 9:09 pm 
What kind of attitude leads to mediocrity? I wasn't trying to argue or debate, I'm fine with being tough on them.

I was just trying to find out what your idea(s) was for being tough. Fire them? Give them a suspension? Something else?

Still, I can kinda see why you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
nishikaze

Posts: 6780
Contrib Points: 1155.7
Since: 29/Jan/06
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 10:42 pm 
Quote:
There are a lot of "editors" who, when submitting their guides, have to be told over and over to check for spelling, grammar, and compliance with guidelines.


Don't I know it too... there's one guide I've had my eye on that I'm tempted to take over but I've been nice...

Anything spelled correctly was submitted by me and the only link is to tv.com!
 
Gadfly

Posts: 4392
Contrib Points: 158615.5
Since: 13/Dec/05
Posted on Tuesday, April 10th 2007 10:56 pm 
I've corrected my share of bad stuff too, and got no sympathy for those "editors." But dumping them means you've got more stuff for the site moderators to do to check out the queue, and as people are saying elsewhere, tvrage is losing folks anyway.

Okay, I will "argue" with Mogg on one thing. Sort of. Editors-in-chief on major publications pay their workers. You shouldn't accept incompetence from volunteers... but you got to go a little easier on them then the people you're paying to do a job. How much easier, I don't know, that's the tricky part. Some people just think it's "cool" to "own" a person or show, and don't know how to do the job.

Hmm, okay, I guess one other thing. How are these "editors" becoming editors? Seems like the current system is pretty tight about making sure before someone can become editor they have to show they're competent. Are the problem editors people from before the new rules were set up?
 
MoggIntellect

Posts: 5943
Contrib Points: 3206.3
Since: 30/Jan/06
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 1:21 am 
Gadfly -- *sigh* do we have to do this here?

Yeah, publications pay their workers, but some publications accept submissions from those not on the payroll. Some are chosen to get published, while others get thrown into the garbage. If you set your standard at grammatically correct and nothing more, that's often what you'll get. What's the solution? That's not my concern any longer and I don't wish to discuss that here, since that stretches from an explanation of why I stepped down to challenging the current system, which I don't have any desire to do. I'm not leaving the site in a huff, nor do I want to ruffle feathers, I'm simply stepping down from my position.

By the way, it's not so difficult to become an editor. Add lots of quotes ripped from TV.com and "reword" some episode summaries (hell, one sentence is often enough). Presto, 40 pts, you're an editor.
 
General_Sherman
Posts: 11192
Contrib Points: 3766.2
Since: 13/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 4:40 am 
It's a shame you're stepping down Michael, you are a credit to this site. But I respect your decision.
 
Gadfly

Posts: 4392
Contrib Points: 158615.5
Since: 13/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 6:42 am 
Regardless, it's pretty rude that the site coordinator won't even return your calls, so to speak. That seems a bigger problem than anything, so good luck wherever you end up.

Any plans for the future if u end up quitting entirely?
 
Aramis

Posts: 4502
Contrib Points: 22258.1
Since: 17/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 7:33 am 
I'd give it abit more time, if Seb has seen this blog he'll probably remove you like you've requested - but I'm pretty sure the guy gets a lot of PMs and it takes awhile for him to reply. He may also have been giving you a minute to possibly reconsider your decision.

I agree that it doesn't take much to become an editor on some guides - but it's like that on all of these sites. Submit generic info and boom you're the editor. Heck I've done it myself ... what matters is if the person continues/begins adding worthwhile information to the guide.

I'm also guilty of the one sentence summary crime, but how can you give an in-depth description of a 10 minute long cartoon without giving away spoilers???? lol I am very sorry that you're unhappy Michael, I hope y'all come to an agreement on a way to remedy the situation.
 
Murdock
Posts: 3695
Contrib Points: 5804.4
Since: 06/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 11:08 am 
Michael, I can totally relate to your frustration with Sebrioth’s lack of commitment. Sadly, and mostly because of that, I also share your disenchantment with this site.

When I joined TvTome I did it because I was dazzled with the idea of building guides for the sake of information. All you had then was the satisfaction of making a prolific information resource and know you deserved to edit it. A lot of things changed since TV.com, namely because of the point system. Now all these sites are nothing more than dog-eat-dog communities whose members try to achieve a spot in the limelight by amassing ridiculous CPs, which brings a whole new set of issues, such as gaming. At TvTome there was no such thing as “gaming the system”. TVRage was a beacon of hope for getting back what we had lost with the TvTome sell out. However, working in the heart the site, I see how things progress (or rather don’t) and I no longer believe TVRage will ever be more than a pastiche of TvTome/TV.com. Not because of the hardworking editors who actually give some content and quality to the site, but because of the numberbots and data input drones that populate this site. The predilection of CPs over content is this site’s Achilles’ heel. The only thing this site had over TV.com was quality and standards, but they are no longer priorities. Points=hard work.

The administration is chaotic. Sebrioth pops in twice a week (at best), and staff dynamics are nonexistent. I grew increasingly tired of seeing how every effort to improve the site is put on tools to make input data easier, as opposed to guarantee that prolific editors remain content and motivated. SPECTRE is just a tip of the iceberg. Editors are leaving every week and unless Sebrioth gets his head in the game, he will keep losing members until traffic does not pay the bills, at which point oblivion is inevitable.

I was trying to avoid the cliché of a bashing blog, but I’m tired of pretending the site is not stagnant. And yeah, I could tell this to Seb privately, but like Mogg had alluded, there’s a trend in the staff of overlooking anything that is not traffic or data input orientated. I find myself logging in once a day, and seeing nothing but stagnancy and unanswered questions I ask myself what I’m doing here at all. My disappointment has been building up to the point of becoming apathy. This was supposed to be fun, but it no longer is... it hasn’t been for quite some time, I must say.

I’ll take your lead and ask for my resignation too ― I hadn’t done it so far because I was hoping things could improve, seeing as Seb said he’d become more active, but now I see no prospect for improvement. Your blog gave me the boost I needed.
 
Ben21

Posts: 13473
Contrib Points: 801547.4
Since: 06/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 11:35 am 
I wish you both well in the future but hopefully changes will be made on the site soon. I have many ideas which I'm hoping will be implicated soon which should boost moral and hopefully improve the site.
 
andrew

Posts: 18192
Contrib Points: 6810.6
Since: 09/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 2:32 pm 
I'm sorry to see both you guys go- both were tremendous assets to the sites, and did a lot, however, like Liam, I respect you decisions. Best of luck in the future though.
 
Aramis

Posts: 4502
Contrib Points: 22258.1
Since: 17/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 4:26 pm 
I hate it, but everyone is right ... it's your call.

While there are some things that I would also like to see changed on here, I also respect Sebrioth's right to do it at his own pace. We share this site, we've helped build it up but when it comes down to it - he owns it.

Concerning SPECTRE - I know this will sound rude, but have you considered the fact that as far as I can tell there are only a couple of people on here that have enough sense to handle that position and they already have too much on their plates.
 
Ryan

Posts: 30631
Contrib Points: 6849.4
Since: 01/Dec/05
Posted on Wednesday, April 11th 2007 4:36 pm 
"You know you can't hold me forever
I didn't sign up with you
I'm not a present for your friends to open
This boy's too young to be singing the blues

So goodbye yellow brick road
Where the dogs of society howl
You can't plant me in your penthouse
I'm going back to my plough"


That one's to remember the old days, mon frère.
 
Batman_Beyonder2

Posts: 7704
Contrib Points: 3355.1
Since: 27/Nov/05
Posted on Sunday, April 15th 2007 4:51 am 
Batz pops in just for the hell of it... Welp, that was my 30 seconds of fame...Back to oblivion I go.

Murdock and Mogg? God Speed.
 
booksnbeach4me

Posts: 1
Contrib Points: 0
Since: 14/Jan/06
Posted on Sunday, April 15th 2007 7:21 pm 
Ya know-- it happens in the "real world", too. I recently took on a new position at my company because I was tired of dealing with "professional writers and editors" who couldn't write or edit... and a manager who had no writing or editing experience and didn't care. I hated being part of a team of "professionals" who couldn't do the job they were allegedly skilled and trained to do. So, I decided to take myself off of the team because I didn't want to be associated with them. People actually made fun of the things we wrote and when I told my boss, she thought I was making it up.

I'm sorry about your experiences here. I don't post much and I don't hang out here much anymore but you always have something worthwhile to say. It sucks to see someone who "cares" be ignored.

In my exit interview from my "professional writing" position, I told them that by not encouraging quality, they were sending the message that monkeys could do the job.

Good luck!!!
 
MoggIntellect

MoggIntellect


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